Online business growth TODAY, is less about being everywhere and more about finding your niche, building a personal brand and guiding the right people into platforms you OWN.
Trying to grow your online business with strategies that worked in 2010?
The online world has changed. Your audience has grown up. And “post more” is not the revolutionary strategy some people still pretend it is.
In this episode, top podcaster, business coach and online entrepreneur of 11 years, Jenny Melrose, dives into how to find your niche (one that actually converts), build a personal brand people love, and create a customer journey where your ideal clients immediately think, “hey, she gets me!”
Jenny also shares how to grow an email list with a lead magnet people genuinely want and how therapists and service providers can create more sustainable income besides one-to-one sessions.
What you’ll learn:
- How to find your niche (the one that converts)
- The story skills you need for building a personal brand
- How to grow an email list where people actually open messages
- What the new customer journey looks like since AI
- Passive income for therapists and service providers (the sustainable kind)
Listen For
TIMESTAMPS
04:01 — How to believe in your business, even without support
08:32 — Passive income for therapists: moving beyond trading time for money
13:24 — Online business growth without posting 24/7
16:47 — Building a personal brand through storytelling
19:41 — How to grow an email list for today’s very different customer journey
MORE ABOUT JENNY MELROSE
Jenny Melrose is a former teacher, business coach and top podcaster who has worked in the online space since 2010.
After growing a successful food blog that replaced her teaching salary, Jenny moved into consulting and now helps women entrepreneurs, particularly therapists and service providers, turn their expertise into sustainable products, services and revenue streams.
Her approach is practical, audience-first and thankfully NOT about telling you to post 85 times a day on Instagram.
CONNECT WITH JENNY MELROSE
Website: https://jennymelrose.com/
Podcast: Practice to Profit
LISTEN TO NEXT:
Why You’re Still Hiding – Even If You’re Posting (ep 54)
RESOURCES
Instagram:@chardetryel
Listen to the Secrets to Standing Out Private Podcast
MORE ABOUT THIS ONLINE BUSINESS GROWTH PODCAST EPISODE
“You’re won’t be able to win by just doing more content.” – Jenny Melrose, business coach and host of Practice to Profit
- How to find your niche without boxing yourself in
- Build a personal brand people actually remember
- How to grow an email list with smarter lead magnets
- Create a customer journey that turns attention into trust
- Online business growth without being everywhere
Online Business Growth Has Changed: How to Build a Business That Actually Fits Today
Is Your Online Business Still Following Rules That No Longer Work?
What if the problem is not that you are doing too little, but that you are following a business model built for a completely different internet? As Jenny Melrose puts it, “Online continually changes.” Yet plenty of entrepreneurs are still being handed advice that assumes more content, more platforms, more visibility, and more output will automatically lead to online business growth.
That can be a particularly exhausting message when you are in your first few years of business. You are already trying to understand your offer, your audience, your positioning, your marketing and—minor detail—how to actually make money. Then someone cheerfully tells you that “you need to be posting every single day.” Lovely. Just what your calendar needed.
The deeper issue is psychological as much as strategic. When everyone around you seems to be doing more, it becomes very easy to assume that growth lives on the other side of more effort. But Jenny’s experience points somewhere else: “You need to be where your people are.” That sounds almost too simple, but it completely changes how you think about marketing.
Online Business Growth Is Becoming More About Precision Than Presence
For years, visibility advice often boiled down to one idea: get in front of as many people as possible. The modern version requires more discernment. Jenny makes the distinction beautifully when she says, “It’s really dependent on who your people are and where they are.” The goal is not omnipresence. The goal is relevance.
That matters because attention does not automatically become trust, and trust does not automatically become a sale. You can have impressive reach and still discover that your audience never moves closer to your work. Jenny learned this firsthand after building “640,000 followers on Google Plus” and later realising she had not done enough to move those people onto an email list she actually owned.
There is a useful reframe here for anyone pursuing online business growth: visibility is only valuable when it leads somewhere. Jenny calls social media “rented property,” which is possibly the least sexy phrase in online marketing and also one of the most important. Your audience may meet you on a platform, but your business becomes more resilient when that attention connects to something deeper.
The New Growth Model: Recognise, Connect, Continue
A useful way to think about modern marketing is through three stages: Recognise, Connect, Continue. First, your ideal client needs to recognise herself in your message. Jenny explains that businesses often struggle because they fail to create “content that they see themselves in.” Clever language means very little if your audience cannot immediately tell that you understand their actual problem.
Next comes connection. As AI makes generic information easier to create and easier to access, being informative alone becomes less distinctive. Jenny believes “people want to connect with you,” and that shift makes stories, lived experience, point of view and personality more commercially important—not less.
Finally, the relationship needs somewhere to continue. You are not trying to capture someone’s attention for twelve seconds and hope destiny handles the rest. Jenny argues that “the customer journey is gonna take longer than it used to,” which means businesses need to create thoughtful ways for someone to move from discovery to familiarity to trust.
1. Recognition: How to Find Your Niche Without Feeling Boxed In
One of the clearest ways to increase recognition is to become more specific about whom you help. Jenny says one of the biggest changes in her own business happened when she became comfortable “not trying to attract everyone.” That is the part of niching that sounds terrifying until you realise the alternative is often being vaguely relevant to everyone and deeply relevant to no one.
If you are wondering how to find your niche, it may help to stop treating it as a permanent identity decision. Jenny’s business evolved over time, eventually drawing more therapists because “they really understand and know what it is that they need.” Your niche can emerge from who responds most strongly to your ideas, teaching style and way of solving problems.
The real question is not, “Who am I allowed to work with forever?” It is closer to: “Who can most clearly recognise that I am for them?” Jenny explains that once she identified therapists as her ideal client, it became easier for people to understand “what it is that they need.” Clarity makes both marketing and buying easier.
2. Connection: Build a Personal Brand People Can Actually Feel
The rise of AI has made one part of marketing more valuable: being recognisably human. If you want to build a personal brand, information alone will not do the heavy lifting anymore. Jenny says, “the only way to do that is through stories,” because stories reveal the person, perspective and experiences behind the advice.
That does not mean turning your business into a reality show or narrating your breakfast choices for engagement. The aim is relevance. Jenny describes stories as a way of “making you a real person,” and that human layer helps someone decide whether your worldview, values and way of communicating resonate with them.
Long-form content has an advantage here. A short post may introduce an idea, but a podcast, article or video gives someone more time to experience how you think. Jenny recommends having “a primary piece of content like a podcast or YouTube” that also connects back to your website, creating a deeper ecosystem instead of a stream of disconnected posts.
3. Continuation: Design a Customer Journey, Not a Content Treadmill
A good customer journey answers a deceptively simple question: what happens after someone likes what they just saw? Jenny gives an example of a client whose social content started performing well, but who initially struggled to turn that interest into subscribers. Her advice was direct: “You have to have one, have a call to action.”
This is where many businesses accidentally create leaks. A post works. A podcast gets discovered. A reel performs. Then…nothing. Jenny’s client changed that by creating something closely connected to the topic already attracting attention, rather than sending people toward a random generic freebie. The result came from having “something that’s connected to what you’re talking about.”
If you are wondering how to grow an email list, that principle matters more than simply producing another lead magnet. The strongest list-building assets feel like the obvious next step after the content someone just consumed. Jenny’s example demonstrates how powerful that continuity can become when the “call to action…was connected to what she was talking about.”
Sustainable Growth May Mean Expanding Beyond One-to-One Work
The conversation around growth gets especially interesting for service providers because there is a physical ceiling on how many hours you can sell. Jenny works with many therapists who became exhausted because they were “trading time for money in the therapy room.” That tension applies far beyond therapy—to coaches, consultants, practitioners and other expertise-based businesses.
For anyone exploring passive income for therapists, Jenny describes courses, memberships and digital products as possible extensions of existing expertise rather than a replacement for meaningful client work. Many of the professionals she supports want to “make it another piece of their revenue streams,” which is a much healthier framing than trying to transform an entire business overnight.
There is also an ethical layer that deserves more nuance than online marketing usually gives it. Jenny reminds service providers that selling does not have to mean pressure: “You’re inviting them into it. They can say no.” Sustainable growth works much better when the marketing model matches both your commercial goals and the way you genuinely want to treat people.
The Advantage AI Cannot Easily Replicate
AI can produce more content than any one entrepreneur ever could, which is exactly why trying to win through volume is becoming less interesting. As we discuss in the conversation, “You’re not gonna be able to win by just doing more content.” More is available everywhere. Meaning, specificity and recognisability are harder to replicate.
Jenny suggests developing clear frameworks because “it’s important to have frameworks within your business.” A named methodology, distinctive idea or repeated perspective helps people associate an outcome with you rather than remembering you as another generally helpful person on the internet.
That may become one of the biggest advantages for small personal brands. You do not need to outproduce AI or larger companies. You need your audience to know, “I know that person. They do this.” Recognition is powerful because it reduces the mental effort required for someone to remember, recommend and eventually buy from you.
You Do Not Need to Build Everywhere
There is something deeply freeing about separating online business growth from constant online presence. Jenny admits that if someone visits her social accounts, “nothing new has been posted in quite some time,” because she knows that is not where her audience primarily comes to solve the problems she helps with.
Your answer may be different. Instagram might genuinely work for your market. YouTube might be the place. A podcast might become your strongest authority platform. The strategy is not “leave social media.” The strategy is exactly what Jenny says: “You need to be where your people are.”
Imagine how different your next year of business could feel if growth stopped requiring you to maintain every possible platform. You could build around the places where your audience already searches, listens and learns while strengthening the channels you actually own. As Jenny puts it, “That is the thing that you own, is your email list.”
Listen to the Full Conversation
If you have been questioning your niche, your content strategy or why tactics that once seemed obvious now feel increasingly ineffective, this conversation will give you plenty to think about. Jenny’s reminder that “online continually changes” is not something to fear; it is permission to rethink what your business genuinely needs now.
Listen to Stop Marketing Like It’s 2010: The New Rules of Online Business Growth with Jenny Melrose on Her First Three Years for the full conversation on niching, audience connection, email growth, personal branding, ethical selling and building a business that can evolve with you.
Frequently Asked Questions About Online Business Growth
What is online business growth?
Online business growth means creating a business that attracts the right audience, converts attention into relationships and develops sustainable revenue. As Jenny explains, “You need to be where your people are,” rather than simply trying to appear everywhere online.
How do I find my niche in business?
If you are learning how to find your niche, start by noticing which audience most strongly responds to your expertise and communication style. Jenny found greater clarity after “not trying to attract everyone” and becoming much more specific about whom she served.
Do I need social media to grow an online business?
Not necessarily. Jenny argues that the idea that you must constantly use every platform “is incorrect.” Social media can work extremely well for some audiences, but your marketing strategy should reflect where your ideal clients genuinely search for information.
How can I build a personal brand in the age of AI?
To build a personal brand that stands out, combine useful expertise with stories, experiences and a recognisable perspective. Jenny says “people want to connect with you,” which makes human connection increasingly important as generic information becomes easier to generate.
How do I grow an email list?
If you are figuring out how to grow an email list, connect your lead magnet closely to the content already attracting the right audience. Jenny recommends creating “something that’s connected to what you’re talking about” rather than an unrelated free resource.
What is a customer journey?
A customer journey is the path someone takes from discovering your work to trusting, engaging with and potentially buying from you. Jenny notes that “the customer journey is gonna take longer than it used to,” so businesses need more intentional ways to nurture relationships.
Can therapists create passive income online?
Yes, there are several models for passive income for therapists, including digital products, courses and memberships. Jenny describes these as ways to “make it another piece of their revenue streams” instead of relying entirely on one-to-one client hours.
What matters most for online business growth in the age of AI?
Specificity, trust and recognisable ideas matter increasingly. As the episode explores, “You’re not gonna be able to win by just doing more content.” Businesses that become known for a clear niche, perspective or framework may have a stronger advantage than those simply creating greater volume.
TRANSCRIPT WITH JENNY MELROSE
Chardét Ryel (00:00)
You know that the way people pay attention has changed. You know that what they want from us has changed. Just being online in general, business-wise, is totally different now than it was five years ago, three years ago, even last year. And so that’s why this guest today is so, so important to listen to. It’s Jenny Melrose. She is a business coach helping business owners.
With their online presence, their profitability, and she specifically helps service providers and especially therapists. Now it’s a fun conversation. We talk very real about things that have worked for us and things that have not, in terms of creating a relationship with your audience, in terms of figuring out what lead magnet they need. Lots of practical things in here, as well as some inspiration for you. Can you share?
a little bit about when you first began to be an entrepreneur because I know you’ve been doing it for a while, you’ve helped a lot of other people and I feel like it’s so interesting just to see where did it all begin.
Jenny Melrose (01:04)
While I was teaching, I started a food blog. So I got into this online space back in 2010. It was more or less when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and no one really understood how anything worked. I really at that point that food blog blossomed. I was able to replace a teaching salary of 75,000. And from that point on, I’ve been consulting. I’ve been working with women entrepreneurs that are trying to figure out this online space.
in how to actually make it something that can be a sustainable income for them without the burnout. So and that’s what I’ve been doing with Jenny Melrose dot com since twenty fifteen.
Chardét Ryel (01:42)
I think it’s incredible because it kind of really plays to what a lot of people listening are experiencing but don’t hear, which is the idea that you’ve had many different kinds of businesses and brands and iterations of this. It’s not just a A to B journey that there were different little windy ways that you took to get here.
Jenny Melrose (02:01)
Yes, I think every way that you take helps you figure out who you are and what your true passion is and what you’re going to be able to utilize to move forward.
Chardét Ryel (02:12)
How was it? Because I feel like this is kind of a scary moment where you were in, you had this food blog. It was replacing your salary. But even then, I know there must have been a little bit of fear or second guessing, or maybe you were just ready to go for it. I don’t know. But there’s kind of the sensation of, am I ready to leave behind this salaried job to go do something totally different? I mean, do you remember like how did you feel and what made you be like, I’m gonna just do it?
Jenny Melrose (02:39)
Always, always have been the kind of person that just takes a leap. And if you put something in front of me and tell me I can’t do it, you can bet yourself I’m gonna make sure that I do it. I just have that desire that when people don’t believe that I can. I mean, I’m to be best example, I’m five foot four and I played college basketball. So I think that’s the best way to explain it. They said that will never happen. You’re never gonna be able to do that. I will make sure that I’m able to do it. But there was a lot kind of a
Pushback. I came from a family. I was the first to go to college in my entire extended family, cousins, all of them. And I came from a very blue-collar family that you became a teacher, you stayed a teacher, you worked to get that retirement. So when I said that I was leaving, it what rocked my entire family’s world. It didn’t help that I also said I was moving 350 miles south from New York to North Carolina.
And taking my grand their grandchildren, as they like to say, not my babies, but their grandchildren with me. But yeah, it was, it was very scary. It was kind of, I believed in myself and I still continue. And we’ve had all sorts of ups and downs. Online continually changes. You have to be resilient and you have to believe in yourself. Otherwise, this journey of being an entrepreneur is very, very difficult.
Chardét Ryel (04:01)
Yeah, I think that was the hardest thing for me to r to really remember. And I know a lot of people listening too is because I think in the beginning you experienced this. You were saying with your family that we think that the people who know us best, friends, family, partners, are going to be the ones to really like support us and bring us through this exciting chapter. And you find out that even if that’s true in the beginning, it doesn’t always stay after a little while. And
You need to believe in yourself because that’s what it will come down to, right? Like it really is you and it’s great if other people are on board, but you just cannot count that that’s gonna be the case.
Jenny Melrose (04:39)
Yes, absolutely.
Chardét Ryel (04:40)
Do you feel like what at what point did your family I’m thinking because you’ve been doing this a while and you have so many things you’ve achieved, at what point did your family come back to you and be like, Okay, we understand why you did this? I
Jenny Melrose (04:54)
I think that it was never actually said. I come from an Irish Catholic family. We don’t speak about our feelings and we don’t tell each other how we actually feel. We are very passive aggressive. I knew though that they were okay with it when I would be introduced to someone and they already knew kind of what I did. They didn’t totally understand what I do, but they kind of already knew that I own my own business and I’d been doing it for quite some time.
And I think that that was the easiest way for them to explain it because they did not understand the food blog at all. Like that was just so far beyond their reaches. Now that I work more with the consulting side of things, they do understand a lot more that I help people figure out how to create that product or service that’s going to be able to be marketed to an audience. But in at the beginning, it was very confusing for them.
Chardét Ryel (05:48)
I can just see it at the dinner table, right? Like and this person’s a teacher and this person works at this company and my daughter Jenny, she does something online.
Jenny Melrose (05:58)
Yes. Luckily none of the crazy stuff really existed where you like sold pictures of your feet or anything at that time because I think there would have been a lot of questions if that was the case.
Chardét Ryel (06:09)
my gosh. I went through that a little bit because I was I used to be in fitness and I went and they’re like, so you’re wearing leggings online in front of strangers. How is it has anyone else in your family, either direct or maybe even friends of the family, since gone on to run a business, maybe inspired by you or speaking with you? Because I feel like sometimes you gotta be the first.
Jenny Melrose (06:18)
Yes.
My youngest daughter and even my older daughter are very entrepreneurial mindset. They see me doing the things, they understand that it is a possibility. And my youngest always talks about, I’m gonna own my own business. Now her business is always something crazy. She’s only 13, but she understands that that’s a possibility. And she’s a hustler. Like she’s 13 years old and she’s putting up flyers all over our neighborhood about I’m babysitting this summer. Come call my
We’ll figure out a time for me to come watch her kids. I mean, this is a same child who, when we first moved into our neighborhood that we live in now five years ago, she actually went door to door selling cardboard tombstones as Halloween decorations. And she was selling them for 20 bucks. And people were like, you’re so cute. Here you go. I mean, this is just the child that she is. So it I do see that. Like they understand that there’s a possibility of.
Being a business owner. And I especially love that they are girls and that they see women able to do it. That wasn’t something I ever saw as a kid growing up. And that is a huge piece of why I do what I do. I want the women that I am working with, the little girls in their lives, to be able to see that that is a possibility for them. That’s why I do what I do.
Chardét Ryel (07:52)
This is like the most valuable thing about what you’re doing is that you’re not only able to impact the women, of course, who you’re building a business with, but also every single person and especially every single girl and woman in their life gets to see and say something like that. Like, I’m gonna be a business owner. I didn’t even know those words. And for her to be able to say that and not only say it, but have some pretty good ideas, I think. Some pretty creative things. It’s incredible. It’s really amazing.
Have you found since you’re mostly coaching other entrepreneurs and you’re helping them to grow their businesses, at what stage are most of them would you say, when they come to you?
Jenny Melrose (08:32)
So my business has become very niche over the years. I draw in a lot of therapists over primarily since COVID, because a lot of them got overworked, of course, couldn’t see people in place in actual person. And then once they finally could, there were so many more people needing them that they were entirely getting burnt out so quickly because they were trading time for money in the therapy room.
So a lot of them have come to me now wanting to create passive income, wanting to create a course, a membership, something for their clients, and then being able to reach, you know, further with those that aren’t necessarily right in their state, because in the US, you have to actually have your license and only service people within that state. Over the years, I’ve become very much more specific. And I think that that has helped in.
Being able to reach more people and attract the right people to me that really understand and know what it is that they need. So a lot of the people that I work with already have a practice and they’re trying to turn into this idea of a digital product, digital service. How can I add this to what I’m already doing? Not necessarily make it a side hustle, but make it another piece of their revenue streams.
Chardét Ryel (09:52)
This is such a valuable target audience because I’m just thinking like there this struggle is real going from in person, especially hourly, to online with no ceiling in terms of who you’re servicing. And it is hard, not even just for therapists. Like I’m look I’m thinking of any any sort of wellness coach, nutritionist, anyone who works hourly and has been taught that that’s the way to do it. And you really do have
You hit burnout so much if you’ve had to travel to people’s places or you have to work in for someone else, whatever. And I can see how there’s some extra blocks that might get in someone’s way. I think
Jenny Melrose (10:31)
My therapists, they are very careful. And I think it’s primarily my therapists. I think my other service providers don’t necessarily have this issue, but my therapists are very s concerned about the ethics because through their programs that they have gone through school for to get all the ABCs behind their names, they have been taught that it’s not okay to promote things to your clients that you’re actually seeing in person. And I think anyone like
It most women that I run into, they struggle with sales. They feel like I don’t want to push myself onto someone. I don’t want someone to feel like they have to. And I think we need to change our mindset with that aspect. And I always tell, especially my therapists, you’re inviting them into it. They can say no. They don’t even have to say no. They don’t have to buy. It’s fine. This isn’t high pressure car salesman. Like we’re just letting them know this is what the, you know, these are the pain points that you’re struggling with.
This is what it can look like. This is the transformation. Here’s an opportunity to start that journey. And if they decide, they decide. If they don’t, they don’t.
Chardét Ryel (11:38)
That is a huge block, actually. And I’m not I’m thinking even beyond this, where you go in and especially a lot of people listening are gonna feel this way of they really want to serve people. They really wanna help them. And that seems at odds, understandably so, with some of the like really wild bro marketing advice out there.
That is about manipulation, that is about just getting them in the door and not caring about how you what happens afterwards. So I can see where there’s this dichotomy, like they’re really struggling with it because of what we see so much is, you know, the big shiny, do whatever it takes to get someone in the door.
Jenny Melrose (12:19)
Yes. And I think what we need to realize is that people will be attracted to you based on you. I am often told I came to you because you were a teacher, because I could tell the way that you taught. You understood. You found a way. Many mom will say with my ADHD brain, they have, and I have a way of being able to pull it apart. So they understand. And it comes from that educational background. I understand.
How to figure out a way to help people get through what they’re struggling with, those roadblocks.
Chardét Ryel (12:50)
Because you’re a teacher, I think you have a unique vantage point on this because you’re right. Like you have such a skill set to be able to break this down and really understand what is tripping people up. So what do you think is some of the advice, maybe in business or marketing or branding, that really confuses people, really stops people, really puts them in in the wrong direction? You know, what is it that is besides the sales part, which I think is really big too?
But is there some other things that you’re seeing that people are misunderstanding or ignoring or getting intimidated by?
Jenny Melrose (13:24)
I think social media is the biggest one of them all. I think everyone hears you need to be on social media, you need to be on every single platform, you need to have a profile, you need to be posting every single day. And by the way, if you’re on TikTok, post 85 times in a day. Constant. And I think that’s also part of the reason that most of my audience is 40 and over because they don’t love social media. They don’t want to be all over it. And I don’t believe that you need to. If someone were to go to any of my profiles,
You’re gonna notice that nothing new has been posted in quite some time because that’s just not where my people are. They’re not hanging out on Instagram looking for information on how to grow their business. They’re hanging out on Instagram looking to like just not be thinking about anything. They’re watching reels about making fun of their husband or golf golfing or whatever their interests are. That’s what they’re there watching. So I think that this whole idea that you have to be on social media is incorrect.
You need to be where your people are. And some of you that may have a younger audience. I have a client right now that I’m working with that’s a really an intimacy coach. And she is aiming for an audience between 30 and 40. Like that’s her ideal audience. And she is all over Instagram and has recently blown up because she has figured out a way to stand out as an intimacy coach and tie it to something.
That so many people are connected to. She talks about Grey’s Anatomy, which is a US show that’s been going for 22 years. Yes, it’s still going crazy. But she takes the episodes of Gray’s Anatomy and teaches you through their relationships intimacy. And so she’s pulling in people that one are Gray’s Anatomy fanatics, and then those that are.
on you know looking for how to fix their relationships how to become more versed in them so she’s great on Instagram like her account has gone bananas over there because of the way that she has done this and that’s where her audience is they’re going there looking for that type of content. so it’s really dependent on who your people are and where they are and the type of content that they’re looking for. Sure they might be on Instagram. I mean I’m there but I’m not there looking for
any s somet n nothing of value. I just wanna zone out like it’s a Netflix show, really, is what I’m looking to do through every single reel.
Chardét Ryel (15:56)
I love it. I think it’s a great example because it’s true that this is generally the case that social media, like you know, we’ll talk about this on your show, but I also agree that social media can be a distraction from really building your branding and your business. But there are instances where it can work, dependent on your audience, and I think dependent on who you are and what you enjoy.
If you don’t enjoy it and you don’t want to be there doing it, there is no amount of trends or hard work that is gonna make you blow up. It’s just like it’s crazy for me. But I love this example. And I think it points to something else you do really well that you talk about that I would love more insights on around your creating a brand that connects to people because that’s a great example of someone who understands what her people want and has connected with them in a deeper way.
Jenny Melrose (16:47)
Yeah. So I think right now what we are seeing, especially with AI, is that people want to connect with you. They really truly do. They want to know there’s a person behind that. And the only way to do that is through stories, being able to share your experiences and pull them in through that, making you a real person. I naturally do that just because I have a little 13 year old that is just a lot of personality. So it’s easy to talk about her. But I think that.
The more you can share those kind of stories. And we then went back through our funnels and did an audit recently. And I said to them, I’m like, if you haven’t audited your funnels in the past six months, we’ve done all this work. You have to go back and fix it. You know, AI has changed the habits of people. You gotta find a better way to connect and be able to get them going along the customer journey. And the customer journey is gonna take longer than it used to, and you have to be prepared for that.
And the best way to do it is to connect them with those stories and find a way to con to be in front of them. I think we talked a little bit about social media before. I have always told people that is not your primary piece of content. That is rented property. You do not own it. It can be taken away at any time. I learned this very hard lesson. I had 640,000 followers on Google Plus. For those that don’t know what it is, it no longer exists.
But it was very popular at a time when I was online and building a business. but I failed miserably in getting people from Google Plus onto my email list. That is the thing that you own, is your email list. And you have to have one piece of content where they’re going a platform where they’re gonna be able to find you. And I always tell them my people, website for sure, but you can have a primary piece of content like a podcast.
or YouTube that you then make sure is also on your website so that people can find it and see you as that expert.
Chardét Ryel (18:50)
Yeah, I like this because it’s the it’s that long form content part of your branding that people are not gonna necessarily fall in love with you from a three second reel, but they could do it from your podcast or from binging your YouTube videos and that
takes you from cold traffic to warm so much faster and there’s not the distraction of a million other people, right? This is a great example. And I I appreciate you sharing too how you built a huge community. You did it, right? Like that’s a massive community. And then in the end we don’t have control over that. So if there’s not a conversion, it’s like it’s great for the likes and the validation, but in the end it doesn’t support the business.
Jenny Melrose (19:33)
Right. Absolutely.
Chardét Ryel (19:34)
Are there other big things that you see in your membership with people you coach that get in the way of scaling?
Jenny Melrose (19:41)
Really understanding what your people are struggling with and using their words. Because if you are me specific, like a lot of my clients are therapists, they will have a tendency to use therapy type words. They’ll talk about resilience and they’ll talk about hypervigilance. And you’re sitting there and your eyes are glossing over because you’re like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Their people don’t call it that. So being able to create content that
They see themselves in is always part of what people struggle with. And it has been for years. We hear about SEO and keyword research, and it’s so important. And it still is. I know that AI, like a lot of people are going to AI and utilizing it that way. But if you are being seen as the expert, AI will start pulling you. So it’s important that you continue to create content that your people are looking for. And then
Connect it to your product or service. Because a lot of times when I was a food blogger, it was about just figuring out what the trend was and throwing it up against the wall and see if we it would stick. How many, you know, page views can you get? Because we made a lot of money off of ads. Now it’s about making sure that you have all the questions that your people are looking for content-wise on a website, being able to get them into an email.
And in order to get them onto your email list, so I’m gonna give you a great example. That client that I was talking about that’s the intimacy coach that talks about Gray’s Anatomy, she was really struggling to grow her email list. And I said to her, your reels are starting to get traffic. You have to have one, have a call to action, and two, we gotta have something that’s connected to what you’re talking about. So in the Gray’s Anatomy episodes, because she’s got a podcast, she would often break apart the relationships and talk about the different characters.
She is a genius and created a Gray’s Anatomy character quiz. Which character are you based on your relationship style? Her email list in the past 30 days went from like 30 to I want to say almost 5,000. Because not only are the reels taking off, but she had a good call to action that was connected to what she was talking about. And then her funnel, the emails that come next, continue to tell a story.
And continue to walk people through the this idea of intimacy and the relationships they have, and then offers a low price tripwire to her people, invites them into it. And this is what I see clients struggling with all the time. They’ll come to me and say my list has been stagnant for two years. It’s not growing. Well, they’re not offering something or they’re offering something and I have no idea what it is because it talks about resiliency and hypervigilance and all these crazy words that people don’t recognize.
Chardét Ryel (22:30)
said
a little bit earlier about how the listener journey has changed or the listener journey I’m thinking podcaster. The target audience or your customer journey has changed a lot because of everything that’s happened with AI. There’s a lot more people online doing what you’re doing. But I think that’s a good example of people listening might know the general structure of the funnel, right? Get them on the email list, lead magnet, tripwire. But the way that you’re doing it, like with this example you gave, you have to be so much more on it.
in terms of really understanding the language to use, making it different, what you’re offering. It’s not just a, you know, sixty page PDF, which I’ve done before, it doesn’t work. So we need to like really think about, right? Like what are some other ways that you see the the buyer journey changing?
Jenny Melrose (23:18)
I think that the programs that people are looking for are more personalized, which can kind of make people feel like, well, I’m trading time for money again. But you can still continue to offer that personalization of the audio recordings or the video recordings or the office hours where maybe you’re gonna do once a month, you’re gonna do a group question and answer group coaching call.
I think that there are ways to continue to personalize things. I think the other thing that I have noticed, especially over the last three years, is that it’s important to have frameworks within your business so that you can be identified as the person having it. It’s kind of like having your own trademark when you have your own framework, when you have something that you talk about constantly.
Chardét Ryel (24:05)
Yeah, this is I had there was a guest just I think it was this week that was talking about the idea of an ownable idea, right? Which is kind of the framework that you’re speaking of. Framework is more in depth for sure, which you need, but the sense of, well, how do you compete? Because you can’t just do more content. AI has that covered. You’re not gonna be able to win by just doing more content. But like you’re saying, if you have something that is truly associated with you, then it becomes a little bit easier for someone to say, I know that person.
They do this, and this is how they can help me. And then that buyer journey becomes a little bit easier versus, this is one of a million therapists, and I don’t really know like what intimacy means. I love it. So last to finish, well, second to last question for you. This is one I I really like to ask people who have a lot of experience because I’m always surprised by what they say. What is something that happens in your journey that
If you could do it over again, you would.
Jenny Melrose (25:06)
I would say figuring out who the ideal client was. So Mike McCawlitz talks about the great big pumpkin. Actually, it’s one of my favorite books, The Pumpkin Plan. Once I was okay with not trying to attract everyone and really got very niche with knowing my ideal client is a therapist. I work with others.
But my ideal client is a therapist just because of the way that they are willing to interpret things. And it also gives me a higher purpose because not only am I impacting the little girls on their lives, but I’m impacting all the people that they help.
Chardét Ryel (25:46)
Yeah, it is a big struggle where you want, and I hear this a lot too from people, they want to help everyone. They don’t want to cut themselves off. They want to be able to make a difference for everyone. But then it’s back to that thing that you said where like, well, what are you really known for? Who do you help? How could someone find you? And the fact of you serving therapists, I think, is so interesting because it’s that idea of, well, actually the person you serve might not.
be you, right? You weren’t a therapist, but that’s who resonated with you. And I think being open to that is so important too for people because you could have said, no, I’m only gonna serve teachers. And then this whole market of people that are benefiting would have never felt like they could align with you. Like you were the answer for them. No
Jenny Melrose (26:34)
Absolutely.
Chardét Ryel (26:35)
So I wanna then direct people to your websites, your podcasts. Where are the places that they can connect with you? Especially those listening who are therapists or service providers. I think it’s definitely like go listen to the podcast, connect with Jenny, but where can they do that?
Jenny Melrose (26:51)
Yes, if you go to jennymelrose.com, my website, everything is there. There’s a strategic growth guide that’s right there at the top. If you’re ready for products, there’s a guide for that as well. And the podcast is there. And if you do have a question and you’re listening and you’re listening in your podcast app, open Instagram and just send me a DM on Instagram at Jenny underscore Melrose. I don’t post content, but I do answer my DMs.
Chardét Ryel (27:17)
Definitely go listen to Jenny’s podcast, Practice to Profit. Whether you’re a therapist or service provider, it’s going to help you. Those episodes really, really get into things. We I am also on her show. So there’s an episode there too where we go into more things, visibility. So you’ve got some things that you can listen to, learn, hopefully inspire you, and please share with all the entrepreneurs in your life, especially those who might be therapists because they’re helping others.
This can help them, and I will see you in the next one.
